tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post7615633743876919493..comments2023-06-08T07:32:39.725-05:00Comments on Aristotle's Feminist Subject: Bible Translation: Barbarisms, Solecisms, and AristotleJ. K. Gaylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-2350493835873892812009-12-12T07:14:15.881-06:002009-12-12T07:14:15.881-06:00Great comment, Katherine. I laughed out loud (and...Great comment, Katherine. I laughed out loud (and completely sympathize and identify with what you're saying about our feelings of the need for language repentance :) ).J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-36499940847094507972009-12-12T00:01:21.655-06:002009-12-12T00:01:21.655-06:00This reminds me of something my historical theolog...This reminds me of something my historical theology prof would say when discussing figures like Athanasius or Luther; he would shake his head with a bemused smile on his face and reflect that God seemed perfectly willing to work with "stinkers" throughout history in the church. I also remember my NT criticism prof talking about the Bible as "fragile". <br /><br />It's always a little sobering to notice the biblical writers doing things that when you see yourself doing them, you feel the need to repent. On the other, stranger hand, it's a bit comforting, because I see God's willingness to befriend and work with fellow "stinkers", as it were.Katherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00574613265955035061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-69996946766587608482009-12-11T16:34:47.711-06:002009-12-11T16:34:47.711-06:00Henry, Thanks for helping us remember the Hebrew. ...Henry, Thanks for helping us remember the Hebrew. Do you have an example? I think next I'll post a translation of Hebrew to illustrate what might be "good" or "bad."<br /><br />David, My wife is an award-winning professional writer (not an ak-a-dem-ik writer), who looked at some of my dissertation and called it "Aristotle exposed." Talk about standards. My read of Paul is that he eventually began to repent of his Aristotle influence sometime after he repented of his pharisaism. His re-thinking of everything (i.e., his "meta-noia") in the context of his multilingualism helped him overcome some craziness (i.e., some "para-noia"). Aristotle seemed less willing to grow beyond "objectivity" and logic. But do feel free to point to something particular here that's eating you. Thanks for loving some of this stuff.J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-63722011682497053862009-12-10T13:34:19.594-06:002009-12-10T13:34:19.594-06:00I am so often guilty of S & B that I should ju...I am so often guilty of S & B that I should just shut up, but...<br /><br />Perhaps you are holding Aristotle and Paul and the others to a higher standard than that you espouse personally by stringing together these concordances and even etymologies. Oh, heck. I love that stuff. Thanks for writing.David Kerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13140007604009678479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-66549531899716380292009-12-09T22:02:44.125-06:002009-12-09T22:02:44.125-06:00Another good post, and this one I followed right t...Another good post, and this one I followed right through. Similar things could be written of the Hebrew of the prophets. It's interesting how willing we often are to proclaim one form of Greek from the ancient world to be "good" and another "bad."Henry Neufeldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06170247981224017802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-52270445300451353482009-12-09T16:03:02.816-06:002009-12-09T16:03:02.816-06:00Duly noted, teofilo! Thank you. Do you think Bib...Duly noted, teofilo! Thank you. Do you think Bible translators have downplayed the ugliness in Titus and Philippians? <br /><br />I see that Daniel B. Wallace's essay you reference does have this cautionary note:<br /><br />"Rather than be fully explicit, this study will address the meaning in more genteel terms and use asterisks where the more sophisticated (or perhaps less sophisticated!) can supply the appropriate letters."<br /><br />Once upon a time, my observations weren't as nice as Wallace's I'm afraid. Here's from <a href="http://speakeristic.blogspot.com/2009/06/of-paul-and-pooh-language-and-logic.html" rel="nofollow">an earlier post of this blog</a>:<br /><br />"when Paul uses <i>skubala</i> (σκύβαλα) in his letter to readers in Philippoi, he's already called out 'the dogs' or perhaps 'the bitches' (<i>touS KUnas</i>, τοὺς κύνας) to distinguish himself from his fellow Jews who were insisting on male (penis) circumcision as a necessary mark on the body. So he plays on this derogatory term by downplaying his own personal, physical heritage as 'dog throw-up' if not 'bitch shit' (<i>SKUbala</i>, σκύβαλα). To see the gendered issues here is not too much of a stretch. (It's not, I'm saying, much at all like Sigmund Freud, as the-rapist, discussing penis envy that isn't really there.) The language Paul chooses is dirty on purpose."J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-39910375372824882642009-12-09T15:44:56.694-06:002009-12-09T15:44:56.694-06:00Don't forget Paul's quotation of Epimenide...Don't forget Paul's quotation of Epimenides in Titus 1:12 <br /><br>A certain one of them, in fact, one of their own prophets, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”<br /><br><br />Certainly he used terms that were intentionally ugly to get his point across. (Skubalon: http://bible.org/article/brief-word-study-skuvbalon)teofilohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846527514620575387noreply@blogger.com