tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post408344128514245122..comments2023-06-08T07:32:39.725-05:00Comments on Aristotle's Feminist Subject: Women Count in Bible TranslationJ. K. Gaylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-59721495967009189582011-03-10T11:10:04.466-06:002011-03-10T11:10:04.466-06:00It's regrettable that the blogger Iyov is no l...It's regrettable that the blogger Iyov is no longer blogging. All of Iyov's posts were most insightful, incredibly thoughtful, and usually full of research. (The link above is no longer public, and I just happened to have the post via an RSS feed). The critical response to Longman III began:<br /><br />"Tremper Longman III reecently posted a religion-baiting post recently called “Who cares who translated my Bible?” In it, he argues (as we shall see) that even when the NRSV and NLT2 give the exact same translation possibilities, the NRSV is no good because it contains several Catholics, and a Jew and an Eastern Orthodox me[m]ber on the translation committee. He implies that the best translation is the ESV, which removed footnotes giving alternate translations from the RSV."<br /><br />It took a "look at a responsible Evangelical translation, the NET Bible" and also a "look at a modern Jewish translation, the NJPS"<br /><br />It carefully compared several translations (i.e., NLT2, NRSV, RSV, NJPS, NET, ESV) before coming to the following:<br /><br />"So here is the rub. Despite Longman III’s claim that readers need to apply a theological litmus test in reading Genesis 1:1 based on whether the translators were all Protestant or also scholars who are dangerous and untrustworthy because they are Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Jewish <b>the NLT2 includes the exact same three possibilities for translation as the NRSV for Genesis 1:1.</b> They are <b>word for word the same!</b><br /><br />So, Longman III is not talking about substance here. The translated verse he argues is theologically suspect (NRSV) give the exact same three possibilities as the translated verse he argues is theologically correct (NLT2). All he is doing is smearing Catholics, Jews, and Eastern Orthodox, not on the basis of their competence or academic background, not even on yielding different translations (because they yield the same translations) but merely because they have the temerity to have different opinions than Longman III. In other words, it doesn’t matter if you get the same answer – if you aren’t a solid Protestant, you are just wrong."<br /><br />So, please do know that Iyov's careful, critical response is to Longman III's "code language for religious bigotry" (and is not necessarily a criticism of the NLT2 or any of its team members). <br /><br />(If anyone can find any reason why, for example, Linda L. Belleville or the late Joyce Baldwin Caine might agree with Longman III's language -- as reviewed by Iyov, then please give it. It's clear that the third woman translator of the NLT team, namely Marianne Meye Thompson, has sought or at least referred to "contemporary Jewish literature" when producing scholarship such as her book, <i>The Promise of the Father: Jesus and God in the New Testament</i>.)J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-76260372541666558152009-06-19T13:19:14.352-05:002009-06-19T13:19:14.352-05:00Nyland's Bible Translation blog is worth a car...Nyland's Bible Translation blog is worth a careful read, and then another one:<br /><br /><a href="http://womenministers.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://womenministers.blogspot.com/</a>J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-2436661671181868272008-08-20T05:10:00.000-05:002008-08-20T05:10:00.000-05:00I have responded critically to Longman III here.I have responded critically to Longman III <A HREF="http://voiceofiyov.blogspot.com/2008/08/bigot-language-nlt-and-esv.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Iyovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900943829679088001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-74973136625548359602008-08-17T17:21:00.000-05:002008-08-17T17:21:00.000-05:00Welcome Don. Welcome Shawna. Thank you for your ...Welcome Don. Welcome Shawna. Thank you for your comments. And thanks always for your candor, Suzanne.J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-20603567465285895822008-08-17T01:48:00.000-05:002008-08-17T01:48:00.000-05:00I don't know Ann Nyland, but on some points I am i...I don't know Ann Nyland, but on some points I am in complete agreement with her. I share her pain, Don.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-90845634667719130602008-08-16T22:03:00.000-05:002008-08-16T22:03:00.000-05:00Thank you for the link. This is a great compilatio...Thank you for the link. This is a great compilation. I look forward digging into all the links this week.Shawna Atteberryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12752697766813703698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-26780012485735613402008-08-16T13:57:00.000-05:002008-08-16T13:57:00.000-05:00After reading Nyland's "More than meets the eye" y...After reading Nyland's "More than meets the eye" you should realize at least 2 things:<BR/><BR/>1. Grudem is not a Greek scholar, at least at the time he wrote some things she references.<BR/><BR/>2. One can sense Nyland's pain about much of this.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05247071840577399185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-30677161768952237352008-08-14T21:39:00.000-05:002008-08-14T21:39:00.000-05:00ElShaddai,Hope you know I appreciate your posts; i...ElShaddai,<BR/>Hope you know I appreciate your posts; if you do read Nyland's account of gender bias in translation, then let us know what you think.<BR/><BR/>Peter,<BR/>I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. But for Nyland herself to hide as a woman seems out of character. She writes of William Tyndale, John Rogers, John Wycliffe and Larry Walker each "refusing to renounce [respectively] his translation work. Today's opposition to correct gender translation in Bibles has been political rather than physical." (page 22). The backcover of my copy of her book has this: "Dr Nyland is a Classical Greek scholar who served on Faculty in the Department of Classics and Ancient History at the University of New England, Australia. Her research field is Greek lexicography from Homeric to Hellenistic times. She has published academic papers and books in the fields of both Hittite and Greek lexicography, and is the translator of The Source New Testament." We don't need to belabor this, but Nyland has a blog at which she says this rather explicitly about herself: "I breed, ride and train the old-fashioned type of Arabian horses; also Quarab horses, <A HREF="http://horsesmorehorses.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">am a Bible translator</A>." And elsewhere on the Internet, she converses about translation as <A HREF="http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2004-March/028876.html" REL="nofollow">the woman Bible translator</A>, Ann Nylan.<BR/><BR/>Suzanne,<BR/>Thanks for your many posts on women translators, and your own work in translation. Looking forward to more! Your point here (on the critique of the Christian community) is exactly right (and seems to suggest I may have misunderstood Peter's comment); Nyland does mention in a footnote that "John Rogers worked with Tyndale on a Bible translation under the pseudonym Thomas Matthews." So maybe she initially worked with her publisher under the initial A. for her first name.J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-58830926645797206762008-08-14T19:34:00.000-05:002008-08-14T19:34:00.000-05:00if sometimes intemperate take on the gender in tra...<I>if sometimes intemperate take on the gender in translation issue.</I><BR/><BR/>I think Ann is right on in her critique of Bible translation today. If you remember, we checked out some of her claims and they were shown to be correct. <BR/><BR/>It is possible that she did not want her first name on her original edition. Its too bad. I don't find that a criticism of her but of the Christian community. I think that is how Kurk meant it.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-82734861044724913292008-08-14T12:40:00.000-05:002008-08-14T12:40:00.000-05:00I think I read a pre-publication draft of "More Th...I think I read a pre-publication draft of "More Than Meets The Eye", which was on the Internet around 2002. I found it an interesting if sometimes intemperate take on the gender in translation issue.<BR/><BR/>I note that both for this book and for The Source Ann identifies herself as "Dr A. Nyland". I'm sure I read somewhere, or perhaps heard privately, that she used her initial to avoid being known as a woman, so that her works would stand on their own merit and not be read or ignored because they are written by a woman. Does she say anything to deny this in her book?Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3931921496989071942.post-30768586516861598982008-08-14T12:32:00.000-05:002008-08-14T12:32:00.000-05:00Thanks for the post and for the links. I've not re...Thanks for the post and for the links. I've not read "More Than Meets The Eye", so I appreciate the recommendation.ElShaddai Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06716066390161033335noreply@blogger.com