translating Light of the World

Traditionally John 8:12 and Matthew 5:14 are translated from Greek into English as follows:

"I am the light of the world"

and

"You are the light of the world."

But why does John translate (from Hebrew Aramaic into Greek) Jesus as saying

Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου (from John 8)?

Why does Matthew translate him as saying

Ὑμεῖς ἐστε τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου (from Matthew 5)?

In Hebrew Aramaic are "light" and "world" animate and personal? Doesn't linking these nouns with personal pronouns such as "I" and "you" create some interesting havoc?

And what if gender is introduced in the pronoun? Suzanne posts an introduction.

But how different is what Aeschylus writes (from what John and Matthew write for Jesus) when the Chorus, in the work called the Persians (918-931), say the following?

ὀτοτοῖ, βασιλεῦ, στρατιᾶς ἀγαθῆς
καὶ περσονόμου τιμῆς μεγάλης,
κόσμου τ’ ἀνδρῶν,
οὓς νῦν δαίμων ἐπέκειρεν.
γᾶ δ’ αἰάζει τὰν ἐγγαίαν
ἥβαν Ξέρξᾳ κταμέναν Ἅιδου
σάκτορι Περσᾶν. ᾁδοβάται γὰρ
πολλοὶ φῶτες, χώρας ἄνθος,
τοξοδάμαντες, πάνυ ταρφύς τις
μυριὰς ἀνδρῶν, ἐξέφθινται.
αἰαῖ αἰαῖ κεδνᾶς ἀλκᾶς.
Ἀσία δὲ χθών, βασιλεῦ γαίας,
αἰνῶς αἰνῶς
ἐπὶ γόνυ κέκλιται.

And why does Robert Potter in 1777 render that into English as follows?

O thou afflicted monarch, once the lord
Of marshall'd armies, of the lustre beam'd
From glory's ray o'er Persia, of her sons
The pride, the grace, whom ruin now hath sunk
In blood! The unpeopled land laments her youth
By Xerxes led to slaughter, till the realms
Of death are gorged with Persians; for the flower
Of all the realm, thousands, whose dreadful bows
With arrowy shower annoy'd the foe, are fall'n.

And why does Herbert Weir Smyth translate that so differently also in 1922?

Alas, my king, for our noble army, for the high honor of Persia's rule, and for the splendor of the men now cut off by Fate! The land bewails her native youth, slaughtered for Xerxes, who has crowded Hades with Persian slain. Many warriors, masters of the bow, our country's pride, a great multitude of men, have perished. Alas, alas, for our trusty defence! The land of Asia, the leading power of the earth, has piteously, yes piteously, been bowed to her knees.

Is κόσμου τ’ ἀνδρῶν better "world of men [i.e., not women]" or "glory's ray o'er Persia, of her sons" or "the splendor of the men"? Is "it" the inanimate quality or possession of man?

Is πολλοὶ φῶτες better "much light" or isn't it more "the realm" of men and not women, "a great multitude of men"?

What do bible writers using Greek mean when they talk of the Kosmos? Don't they also aware of the pseudo-Aristotle's theological cosmology, On the Kosmos (aka De Mundo)?

And might Matthew be familiar with Aristotle's Eudemian Ethics (1235b)?

For things advantageous for a healthy body we pronounce good for the body absolutely, but things good for a sick body not—for example doses of medicine and surgical operations; and likewise also the things pleasant for a healthy and perfect body are pleasant for the body absolutely, for example to live in the light and not in the dark, although the reverse is the case for a man with ophthalmia. (translated by H. Rackham, 1935)

τούτου δὲ διωρισμένου ληπτέον ὑπόθεσιν ἑτέραν. τῶν γὰρ ἀγαθῶν τὰ μὲν ἁπλῶς ἐστιν ἀγαθά, τὰ δὲ τινί, ἁπλῶς δὲ οὔ. καὶ τὰ αὐτὰ ἁπλῶς ἀγαθὰ καὶ ἁπλῶς ἡδέα. τὰ μὲν γὰρ τῷ ὑγιαίνοντί φαμεν σώματι συμφέροντα ἁπλῶς εἶναι σώματι ἀγαθά, τὰ δὲ τῷ κάμνοντι οὔ, οἷον φαρμακείας καὶ τομάς. ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ ἡδέα ἁπλῶς σώματι τὰ τῷ ὑγιαίνοντι καὶ ὁλοκλήρῳ, οἷον τὸ ἐν τῷ φωτὶ ὁρᾶν καὶ οὐ τὸ ἐν τῷ σκότει· καίτοι τῷ ὀφθαλμιῶντι ἐναντίως.

How can Jesus, John, and Matthew get away with personalizing and feminizing the categories of inanimate and of masculinity?

shhhhh

shhhh

[still whispering here:

no this is not David Ker the feminist—he’s only become a Better Bible Blogger on blogspot, so there’s still hope for more profound conversion.

yes, it’s J. K. Gayle (back for just a moment from translating that sexist racist logicist Aristotle to show his unwitting feminist discourse in his rhetoric).

A bunch of Bible blogger men are in the translation / commentary ring battling over words and metaphors and life and death. I myself have jumped in with comments to try to show some of what other men--and men only mind you--have done with these words in living color across centuries.

The Rev. Ker himself has just said that’s “a lot of helpful evidence.”

And the Rev. John Hobbins has made two specific requests of me;

to provide

“(1) citation and translation of the Aristophanes occurrences, which I think prove that the metaphor is not always fully loaded (David Ker goes too far, however, if he thinks that it is therefore dead)

(2) your own translation of the relevant passages in Luke and 1 Cor.”]

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(1)

First quick commentary on Aristophanes: He’s one of the most misogynistic of all the men to use ὑπώπια (hypOpia). For all who don’t believe me, I encourage wider reading of the two works I excerpt from here and of his other plays. Thankfully, the excepts don’t show his ugliness toward women. The first is from the “The Wasps” with Philocleon talking (lines 1381 to 1386). The second is from “Peace” (lines 538 to 544); Hermes speaks with Trygeas in reply in the last two lines given. My English follows Aristophanes’s Greek, and I also provide translation by two other men per excerpt.

ἄκουσόν νυν ἐμοῦ. (1381)
Ὀλυμπίασιν, ἡνίκ’ ἐθεώρουν ἐγώ,
Ἐφουδίων ἐμαχέσατ’ Ἀσκώνδᾳ καλῶς
ἤδη γέρων ὤν· εἶτα τῇ πυγμῇ θενὼν
ὁ πρεσβύτερος κατέβαλε τὸν νεώτερον.
πρὸς ταῦτα τηροῦ μὴ λάβῃς ὑπώπια.

Now listen to me.
When I went to view the Olympics,
Ephudion fought Ascondas well
Though the former was already an old man. Then with a hit of his fist,
The elder man knocked out the younger.
Guard yourself this way then, so you don’t get a black eye.
(JKGayle)

Now listen you! You want to talk about old men? Listen! When I was on an embassy to Olympia, there was Ephudion, an old man, and he put up quite a show, fighting Ascondas, a young man. Ephudion smashed his fist on Ascondas and knocked him down, so you be careful you don’t end up with a couple of black “shiners,” my boy!
(George Theodoridis)

Oh, indeed? Well, let me tell you something. Once when I was on a State mission to the Olympic Games, I saw Ephudion fight Ascondas, and the old man fought very well, let me tell you. I shall never forget the way he drew back his arm, like this—and then, with a smashing blow, he knocked the young man down.
And the moral is: watch out, or you’ll get a black eye.
(David Barrett)

Ἴθι νυν, ἄθρει (538)
οἷον πρὸς ἀλλήλας λαλοῦσιν αἱ πόλεις
διαλλαγεῖσαι καὶ γελῶσιν ἄσμεναι—
καὶ ταῦτα δαιμονίως ὑπωπιασμέναι
ἁπαξάπασαι καὶ κυάθους προσκείμεναι.

Καὶ τῶνδε τοίνυν τῶν θεωμένων σκόπει
τὰ πρόσωφ’, ἵνα γνῷς τὰς τέχνας.

Now look here
At the citizens chitchating with one another
How pleasant and how they laugh—
And how indeed the deities give them a black eye
How wounded and how they lay their hand on to cup it.
And let’s view what can be seen
In their faces, so as to know their skills.
(JK Gayle)

Hermes: (Points at the audience) Hahaha! Look at that down there, will you? See with what delight all the citizens of Greece are chatting with each other? See how happily they laugh and chuckle together? Even though they’re adorned with cupping cups attached to their dreadful, black eyes! Look! Hahahaha! A black eye, every single one of them, has a black eye and a cupping cup on it!

Trygeas: Hahaha! Let’s see if we can work out what these people do for a living, just by examining their faces.
(George Theodoridis)

Then look how the reconciled towns chat pleasantly together, how
they laugh; and yet they are all cruelly mishandled; their wounds
are bleeding still.

But let us also scan the mien of the spectators; we shall thus
find out the trade of each.
(Translator uncredited at gutenberg.org)

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(2)

passages in Luke and 1 Cor.

διά γε τὸ παρέχειν μοι κόπον τὴν χήραν ταύτην
ἐκδικήσω αὐτήν
ἵνα μὴ εἰς τέλος ἐρχομένη ὑπωπιάζῃ με

because of my bearing such labor by this widow
I’ll give out justice to her
So she won’t in the final round give me a black eye.

ἀλλὰ ὑπωπιάζω
μου τὸ σῶμα καὶ δουλαγωγῶ
μή πως ἄλλοις κηρύξας αὐτὸς
ἀδόκιμος γένωμαι

in other words I get a black eye
my body, even, gets enslaved
so that I won’t myself preach to others in a way
that’s born out of no [proven] reputation

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[now hopefully no one will notice I’ve been back nibbling on cheese and sipping something more aged. The blogging binge ends, for now again.]